welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me Gary
there's nothing but sex and drugs on the
television anymore but then I only
watched the Parliament channel Lord
sucking plassey drugs of the naked
torsos of prostitutes while she had to
be naked the Lord was wearing her
underwear this is as it happens the
lighter laughable site in a different
universe of darkness lies the child sex
abuse scandal in which it is already
clear that a substantial section of our
rulers were unspeakable perverts preying
on the most vulnerable people children
without parents laughably describe this
being in the care of the authorities who
were then abusing them none of this
would have been known but for a handful
of dedicated courageous journalists
foremost amongst those in this
generation is mark watts of x oro news
of Fleet Street London the last outpost
of investigative journalism who'd have
thunk it mark thanks for joining us we
brought you back more quickly than we
might otherwise have done because since
we last spoke and indeed in the days
hours after we last spoke all kinds of
new developments in this story emerged
kindly summarize those yes your item is
amazing what's happened since we last
spoke George and perhaps the most
significant thing was the Cabinet Office
managed to find some documents stuff
down a wardrobe somewhere that had been
lost despite a a massive review into
documents relevant to child sex abuse
they weren't turned up in that review
they turned up a bit later as a
consequence of journalists pressing
pressing the government over over these
files and though these files were
significant because it turns out that
these files about child sex abuse
related to all sorts of people in
positions of power in Britain and in
particular and we don't actually know
what's in them because they haven't been
released but we have got glimpses from
what's been disclosed so far in
ticular there was a communication from
Santa need of who was the head of the
security service mi5 writing to the then
cabinet secretary Sir Robert Armstrong
in which they were talking about an MP
apparently named but the name has not
been publicly released who has a quote
spawn Shan for small boys and the mi5
boss warned the cabinet secretary that
while the MP concerned denies the
allegations and and that denial is
accepted that the there's a far greater
risk as he puts it for political
embarrassment rather than security
concerns and by the way nothing seems to
have been said about the concerns about
the underlying issue namely the sexual
abuse of children just before you move
on from that because I know there are
many other developments wasn't this
straight out of Yes Minister we had the
Home Office stole what lay denying that
any such documents were in their
possessions but they were in fact in the
possession of the cabinet offices it was
a it was a non-denial denial the
government had these documents it's just
that the wrong Department was being
asked if they had them at beggars belief
doesn't it that the British civil
servant service famous throughout the
world for their punctilious ness and
deficiency really lost these things well
yes but it's even worse than yes
minister because not only whether
documents that turned up in another
Department it also turned out there were
relevant documents in the home office
too and when the review was done by an
outside person into relevant documents
at the time he said that he extended his
search beyond the immediate apartments
so he had made some attempt to get
material beyond the Home Office so it is
it is just extraordinary this this
situation it seems as though these rods
are unbelievable well it happens and
we're still waiting to find out exactly
what's in these documents we know that
they they're supposed to be being passed
the police in case they're relevant to
any of their current live investigations
that supposed to be passed to the
overarching inquiry that was set up one
other crucial elements about these paid
is that some of these papers relate
specifically to King Korra this is a
Children's Home in Belfast as was and
there's been a desperate attempt to keep
kincora out of the overarching choir
while they keep Northern Ireland out of
the overarching inquiry it'll be an
overarching inquiry that is in fact not
overarching as in essence and it's quite
clear to ask given the stories that
we've done on xray that kincora is key
to this overarching well I worked a
private eye when Colin Wallace the
former British intelligence man was
regularly talking about kincora but it
never really broke out of private eye
but these new documents take it into the
mainstream Donnelly what might have
happened that kincora what's alleged to
have happened there one thing that's
interesting is that just before those
documents emerged we'd run a story on
Exxaro based on the testimony of an
abuse survivor who identified all sorts
of people as having abused him people in
positions of power but also people who
he said were connected with the cover-up
but he didn't want to go into detail
about what exactly their roles were and
it's very interesting if you look back
at the story we did many of these are
the names that pop out three four days
later in these lost documents that have
just been found miraculously discovered
in in the as you say down the back of
filing cabinets and if you believe that
you'll believe anything and I don't I'm
certain that horrific though the abuse
undoubtedly Wars will come to just how
horrific in a minute the cover-up is
going to be more disastrous for the
ruling elite in Britain than the actual
crimes themselves you agree with that
well I think both I think that it's a so
off the scale I mean it's impossible to
say which is worse I mean the actual
abuse it is such an astonishing abuse of
power to be in a position of authority
in order to access boys and girls it's
both don't forget children under age and
to sexually abused them and have your
and your position allows you to do that
that is off the scale in terms of
traffic though moving them around the
surgery absolutely but then that the
entire state conspired it seems to cover
this up and win police officers as we've
discussed before where
on the trail of this in the past they
were stopped from following the evidence
and you know much their disgust
oftentimes the sexual abuse is horrific
as alleged but when we start talking
about children being murdered by the
abusers kind of moves into the realms of
a plot that if you submitted to
Hollywood might be rejected as
far-fetched and yeah there's good
evidence emerging that that's what
happened well that's right there's a
particular abuse survivor who came to us
that extra talk to us first and in fact
going back to your introduction he
wasn't from a children's home he entered
this world of abuse through his father
who happened to be connected to it and
you know he was abused by by his account
by various powerful people and witnessed
in over the course of you know years
three separate times when other boys
were murdered and where we are now is
the police came to us and said we would
like to speak to the were anonymous
witnesses who were talking to us and we
said well we'll pass on your request but
you know we don't know how much hope
quite frame because unfortunately a lot
of abuse survivors really don't trust
the police and Nick not his real name so
much so lots were surprised decided he
would talk to the police and that is
evolved into this investigation
specifically into the three murders and
the police are now on the record as
having said that they regard Nick's
accounts unbelievable as it seems on the
face of it they regarded as credible
there are ongoing trials now that we
can't refer to I'm told there are
imminent arrests of members of
parliament of former members of
parliament and of serving members of the
House of Lords I asked you this last
time it's a bit unfair as a question
because how could you know how could I
know how could any of us know but is
there any precedent for
us there certainly isn't in Britain
we've agreed i think it's the biggest
scandal ever in britain but other any
other legislators anywhere in the world
any other parliaments anywhere in the
world where such a thing could have
happened has happened well if Varian you
asked that because we had x-ray
obviously based in the UK and although
we do do international stories we focus
particularly on on this scandal in the
UK because it as we described discussed
before it is britain's biggest ever
scandal and we are contacted by a lot of
people overseas who keep telling us that
there are parallels within their own
countries and and you know i hope we
will come to that III think jenny just
name a British disease it may not just
be a British disease no no on the
subject of the British disease
Australian television has done more than
any other certainly broadcast media in
Britain with the exception of James
O'Brien on LBC who's been a good
platform for you and X oral news and has
done a lot of work in exposing this but
most of the British mainstream media has
pretty dismal a failed over decades
suddenly on 60 minutes the flagship
australian broadcasting corporation
television show we have what ought been
on the BBC or ought to have been on
channel 4 on itv how do you compute that
what is it is rather curious situation
and and the 60 minutes program was a
very powerful piece of television
obviously for it for its audience it
didn't actually reveal anything new but
to its audience it would all of comers
new and unbelievably shocking and
disgraceful and so on and it's really
pointed up the issue why is it that ho
british broadcaster has made a current
affairs programme of that nature now i
mean i have to say that i wouldn't rule
out that possibly happening we are
approached a lot of the time what we do
know is that panorama as we reveal some
while ago was set on the course of
trying to debunk the whole story and say
it was all ridiculous and this is a
conspiracy and this is the this is the
broadcaster that game is jimmy savile
and it seems others sadly sure at all I
mean beyond belief isn't it yes
unfortunately mind my feelings about the
BBC render it not beyond belief but but
that's another matter look we caught the
zeitgeist last time we had you within
days story got much bigger what are you
predicting over the next days and weeks
well in a way you touched on it I I
think that we are going to see more
arrests there's a particular
investigation into a ring of alleged
perpetrators relating to a girl a woman
called esta Baker's come forward to talk
about that the police are investigating
it in fact they've made the first arrest
not of a prominent person but they've
made the first arrest in that
investigation so that investigation is
clearly proceeding apace I can tell you
that in the months ahead there's going
to be a lot more even more shocking than
we have exposed already well that sounds
pretty shocking mark thanks for coming
back on the sputnik I have a feeling it
might not be long before i'm asking you
to come back ok but thanks for the time
being coming up after this break why
does the light seemed so bright at the
end of the tunnel thousands in France
are storming not the Bastille but the
eurotunnel defenses stay tuned
you
welcome back to Sputnik the world is
awash with refugees fleeing the Four
Horsemen of the Apocalypse war famine
poverty and disease the unluckiest take
to the high seas in rusting leaking
boats others fan out across a Europe
already buckling under its own economic
woes some some thousands actually camp
out in cali hoping to hit you right on a
wagon or a train bound for britain it's
all manna from heaven of course for
right-wing politicians and media outlets
and euro folks who get the chance to
kick the French as well joining us now
is one of the few british-based
journalists trying to put all this in
context nabila Graham Danny nabila
welcome to the show you're following
this story closely being half French and
also from North Africa in origin so you
have a as a well a double handle on this
here's my take that the British media
and politicians are deliberately
hysterically amplifying the scale of
this problem that there are refugees
everywhere but they're not all headed
for Britain and the idea that is given
that there's a huge army like Hitler's
invasion force just waiting on the other
side of the fence is completely
fictional what's your take on that well
I think there is some truth in what you
in what you say but i think the british
government is also rightly concerned
about what is effectively a huge problem
nowadays it's one of the biggest
problems of our time and it is migration
and it's also often linked with security
issues and that's the approach of the
British government I'm afraid it's time
the two together and that's what's
creating the scare mongering behind
stories that involve security and indeed
movements of people and the French
coverage of the migrants issue has been
pretty much the same even though in
France you actually have a nominally
socialist government which is
exceptionally reaction
when it comes to immigration issues so I
feel that the approach in both country
has been one of a huge concern because
in the end we are dealing with up to
five thousand migrants in Calais have
visited the camps myself and they used
to be a sangat settlement before big
Center for Refugees with all sorts of
you know people involved in looking
after the migrants from the health there
were charitable organizations available
as well now it's all turned into a big
they call it the jungle as it were a big
settlement quite unruly as well and
where people are very vulnerable sangat
was dismantled in 2002 that was welcomed
by the British authorities because the
idea was that it would make the place
less attractive to migrants but clearly
this hasn't been the case 5,000 door is
a very small number of people were
talking about our country Britain where
hundreds of thousands are immigrating
here every year the the 5,000 is being
painted as our multitude it isn't yes I
mean in if you place that in the context
of movements of people around the world
I mean that has always been the case
historically people have always moved
from their own country especially when
they're living devastated societies and
people are desperate to you know start
afresh as it were and then looking for a
place to go where they can be safe and
prosper as it were in a new society as
many hundreds of thousands British
people did otherwise Australia Africa
Canada the United States would still be
populated by their original people maybe
that would have been for the best one
point that is missed of course in both
Britain and I'd appreciate knowing of
its true in France is that British and
French wars in the very regions from
which many of these migrants are coming
have helped put these people on the move
and therefore in a way they're being
double punished here they are their
countries are being bombed then when
they flee they are somehow a dastardly
enemy that has to be stopped at any cost
over at the Calais border well it is
true that the vast majority of people
who are in Calais come from countries
who often been at the other end of
Western bombing and have seen their
societies distracted and an awful lot of
loss of lives involved than those who
survived you know want to get out a
country like Libya for example has been
recently bombed into oblivion and it's
now a place where a lot of smugglers
people smugglers are making an awful lot
of money out of people's misery putting
people and makeshift boats who are
desperate to to leave indeed one of the
people responsible for the destruction
of Libya as a state is David Cameron
himself yeah he's one of the people
growing blowing the bugle about all of
this Sora Katra you are and well as it
happens last week i traveled through a
tunnel twice and ironically the chaos
was on the English side not the French
side as they're suggesting there was it
was huge queues of trucks that were not
able to move on because of the so called
chaos on the other side when I entered
from cali through the time to the tunnel
it went very smoothly that's an
interesting angle because as I said in
the introduction the British media like
to have a kick at France but France is
actually not responsible for this it's
the eurotunnel company that is
responsible for the riveter through the
holes in which some of these people were
trying to go onboard trucks and so on
are coming well I think one clearly
shouldn't underestimate the effort that
the French authorities are putting into
all this the French interior minister
has pledged to you know invest more
millions of euros to try to deal with
this situation they are clearly also
involved in diplomacy with the British
there's a lot of meat
things and talks going on and there are
also token gestures like the deployment
of 120 extra police officers it's a
shared responsibility in my view but as
you said I think when shouldn't lose
sight of the fact that in the end we are
talking about people who should be in
the prime of life but who are currently
dying as they're desperately trying to
make this hugely perilous journey across
the channel tunnel and the French
authorities have actually blamed
Eurotunnel for the loss of lives or for
being a potentially lethal area for
those migrants so the absolute priority
for both governments should be to focus
on saving lives no the brouhaha around
the Cali and tunnel stories has
successfully diverted attention from the
boat people who are far more numerous of
course and who I presume though how
could I know because the media isn't
covering it I presume are still leaving
from the North African side of the
Mediterranean and headed for Europe is
that the case it is very much the case
there is pretty much every day several
boats of full of people who are trying
to make it to the European shores and I
think the core issue in all this is that
in the future we are likely to see more
and more migrants coming from war-torn
countries or the trouble parts of the
world who want to make it into safe
societies in Europe and that's the
problem that Europe will have to deal
with and have to sort out in spite of
all its problems with Greece for example
Europe is still you know very stable
trading block which is very attractive
and appealing to a lot of desperate
people Europe will have to come to find
a solution at the moment it doesn't have
a coordinated approach to this
phenomenon and it's far from finding a
solution well I mean I'll advanced one
the first priority is
to establish an orderly queue for
scientifically appraised immigration
these people in the prime of life
showing such initiative such
determination to get here elected to be
the very people that would act as an
economic accelerator if they did get
here that certainly been the immigrant
story everywhere else in the world no
reason why this would be different the
second is to stop bombing their
countries and interfering in their
countries because if you go further
south to the Horn of Africa for example
the West has been involved in war and
division in Ethiopia Eritrea for as long
as I've been alive I've been conscious
of it since the early 1960s and the
third would be to help economic
development in the south by proper fair
trade and fair terms of investment so
that their places became more attractive
to stay in than setting out for Callie
and trying to jump on the back of a
train how's that for a manifesto well I
I absolutely agree I think there is
undoubtedly a correlation between
countries being bombed and indeed
societies being destroyed and people
there for fleeing you know devastated
places effectively there is no doubt
about that and there's also a
misconception or prejudice about people
fleeing those places to come and you
know somehow come and live on the
benefit system that couldn't be further
from the truth we are talking about
people who have aspirations who like
anybody else want a decent life they are
often very hardworking people and they
simply want to start afresh I fiercely
opposed the bombing of Libya because it
was dressed up as a humanitarian
intervention which eventually brought
about regime change which is of course
against international law but you would
think that if the intention was indeed
to bring about democracy then why are
not Western governments since
typically the French and the British
would in most of the bombing not
involved now to build up civil society
and indeed rebuild the country and make
sure that it is you know a fair and and
society to live in well they achieved
the opposite thank you very much indeed
Nabila Ram Danny for joining us on the
Sputnik and now it's your turn to tell
us what you think through the portals of
social media what's rattling gayatri is
the light at the end of the tunnel what
now for those stranded in cali norton
kane says cameron and co wage a war on
these four people's countries and then
wage war on them as refugees well it's
absolutely true and it's also a total
failure of perspective I myself had been
persuaded that there was an army of a
hundred thousand or so at kelley
attempting to in david cameron's
disgraceful words swarm over here turns
out those five thousand there's not many
immigrants arriving not just a Heathrow
and Gatwick but emigrating to Spain and
Portugal from Britta that's all that
we've got for this week which alas means
that's the end of the show you can stay
in touch with us though on Twitter at RT
underscore Sputnik and on facebook
Sputnik on Russia today it's goodbye
from me Gayatri and for me George
Galloway it's been ma
you